Studio layout-RED Flags???

Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:43 am

Hey guys,

I'm finally starting on the studio over my garage.

http://vodashare.com/show.php/623_studioforweb2.jpg.html

The primary purpose will be just me. A guitar, bass, vocals, maybe a drum kit some day.

Most of the time, the double doors will be open, to utilise the whole space, but I want to be able to close the doors and turn it into two rooms, if necessary. I've run the numbers, and I don't see any pileups as far as axial mode frequencies. Let me know if I've erred in my figureing.

So, does anyone see any major red flags on the basic design?

Thanks all.
Keith

Things not explicitly stated on the drawing, but which may come up:

*I will be employing absorbtion and diffusion, and specifically bass traps in corners, etc. once it's built.

*The 6:12 gable end roof varies in height from 8' to 12' 4"

* live way out in the twigs, 1000 feet off a dead end road, and the nearest neighbour is that far away as well, so unless the sparrows fart really loud, I'm not worried about soundproofing to the outside world.

*approximate length to width ratios:

control room--16 X 10'7", or 1.49:1
tracking room--16 X 11' 6", or 1.39:1
entire room, when all four doors opened up--23 x 16, or 1.43:1

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:42 am

took-the-red-pill wrote:

The primary purpose will be just me. A guitar, bass, vocals, maybe a drum kit some day.

If the studio is mostly for yourself, I'd skip the dividing wall and doors and just make it one large room. That will be much better acoustically.

--Ethan

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:47 am

I'll second that.

and congrats to your move!

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:03 pm

Thanks for the feedback, gents.

That's likely good advice. I might just simplify and do one room.

The only thing is, if I begin to expand, and record for others, or want to record more than one thing at a time, I'd like to be able to have the option of two separate rooms.

So, at the risk of opening a huge can of worms:

1-Can you explain, more or less in layman's terms, what takes place with having the wall there, and the doors opened up, that makes it inferior to simply having one big room?

2-Is there anything that could be done about it, so that when I 'open it up,' it's at least as close as it can be to one room? (I'm a carpenter, and I can build just about anything, so I could pull it off, whatever it is)

Thanks for your time.
Keith

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:34 pm

When closed, which when you want the best sound as it paying our food bill, the sound will be worst.

Not mentioned yet, and it seems to get overlooked so often, with your current middle wall, you are making two rooms with almost identical dimensions to the height.

Andre

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:23 pm

Avare,

Sorry to inundate you with questions. Brief answers will are fine with me, so I don't waste too much of your time.

Do you mean that, when closed, both rooms are too small to give good acoustics?

And what is the reason for wanting the rooms to be more different in their sizes?

And which room should be bigger?

Thanks for the input. I do want to get this right, so I only have to build it ONCE!

Cheers
Keith

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:34 pm

took-the-red-pill wrote:

And what is the reason for wanting the rooms to be more different in their sizes?

The room height average is around 10'2" One room in your current design is 10'7" a ratio of around 1:1.04. The other room is 12'6" giving 1:1.13 as the ratio.

Quote:

And which room should be bigger?

The recommendation is still one large room. If you want to separate them, make smaller room smaller. The bigger room will have significantly better modal effects.

Clear short answerable questions are appreciated.

Andre

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:16 pm

Ahhhhh, I see.

I guess I mistakenly thought that one didn't need to consider the roof in the equasions, when the pitch changes so violently as it moves across the room.(8' at the walls, 12'4 at the peak)

So I take it, the roof still must be considered in the ratios?

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:21 pm

Most definitely the ceiling fits in the equation.

This article @ Studio Tips is a bit propeller head-ish, but Eric (et al) does present it as a very comprehensive analysis.

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:45 am

You might want to take a walk over to here:
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/index.php?sid=57657e487f538ee773b7a2abf703ad7d

You'll probably get a better discussion here at RO, but for research purposes, the John Sayers site is like a library dedicated to your purpose with lots of details. Also, many people from here can also be found there.

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:41 pm

Thanks for the tips, guys. I poked around and found some good stuff.

Questions are at the end of the post.

Okay, based on the feedback here, and the pretty chart on this page with the green blotches all over it, I have come up with a new battle plan. My understanding is the graph(s) in this post tell us which are generally good ratios, an which are generally bad.

http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?t=3148

So I:

-did some reconfiguring,and created a spreadsheet in Excel to consider ratios of all rooms, simulataneously, so that it would refigure as I moved walls.
-considered the average ceiling height, which I hadn't done before.
-adjusted the sizes of everything so that all rooms are within the green section of Eric's graph.
-took out the built in closets. I'll just pick up something from Ikea that will store my meager gear supply.

These are the current ratios.
Control room-1:1.31:1.6(2198 Cu Ft.)
Smaller room-1:1.12:1.64(1400 Cu Ft.)
Whole room, with all double doors open- 1:1.5:2.25(3539 Cu Ft.)

Okay, short succinct questions:

If the ratios appear to be good, as detailed in that graph, am I good to go?

Should I lose sleep over the fact that the small room is only 1400 Cu. Ft? (Most of the time I'm going to have it all opened up, but I want to be able to separate and use it in a pinch.)

Cheers
Keith

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:30 pm

Keith,

The short answer to a 1400 cu ft room; IMVHO, it depends. Smile

Really, it depends upon what your plans are to record in that space. If you're wanting to isolate a vocal or a single instrument, then it would probably be OK. However, I don't think a drum kit is gonna sound too good in there. (and thus you would open the room up, right?)

If it were my space, I'd also explore saving some serious money and time by creating a single room and investing the time in really good gobo's and iso boxes.

You might find that the cost of single room w/gobo's is more expensive than a dual room space, but I would be surprised if that was the case.

Either way, I would spend the extra time looking at both approaches. One method or the other might end up being clearly more acceptable than the other.

Just remember... either way, things WILL end up costing more than you think. So, try to factor in how much financial pain would be inflicted.

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:11 am

Hey Max,

Thanks for the heads up. That's worth considering.

I'm a renovator/framer by profession, so whatever I build will be basically for the cost of materials. And even there, some of them will be leftovers I've been collecting. Either way I can keep pretty tight reigns on cost.

I'll probably end up building those big double doors, from plywood and insulation, again, to keep costs down, and so I can make them 8' high instead of only 6'8".

So thanks for the input guys, and for getting me back on track. That graph showing the good, bad, and ugly room ratios is probably the most helpful thing I've ever come across. It makes things much easier when you're trying to figure out if your current room ratios are working or not.

Thanks
Keith

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:15 am

took-the-red-pill wrote:

I'll probably end up building those big double doors, from plywood and insulation, again, to keep costs down, and so I can make them 8' high instead of only 6'8".

That door construction will not give satisfactory sound isolation. You mass for the doors and seals.

Andre

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:53 am

"I'm finally starting on the studio over my garage."

The floor may be the deciding factor in terms of isolation in the end. I know you said that isolation isn't a high priority because you live in the woods. But when all things are established to prevent leakage from one room to the next via walls and doors and windows. The floors and ceilings will be the next place that sound will flank from.

It's not to throw a monkeywrench in the mix, but sound is 3d!!!

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