My PA Future

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:16 pm

Ive been doing a good bit of research in hopes to build up an effective PA so that I can run sound for bands.

The following is what I have put together for a proper system, but of course many of you are far more knowledgable than I. So, I present you with my plan for you to analyze and critique....tell me where I'm wrong Smile

Looking to be able to run sound in small to medium sized venues

MAINS
(4) Yamaha BR15 Cabs
Crown XLS 802 Power Amp

MONITORS
(4) Yamaha BR12m Monitors
Crown XLS 602 Power Amp

SUBS
(2) Yamaha SW118v Subs OR (2) JBL JRX118s Subs (opinions?)
Crown XLS 602 Power Amp

MISC.
Yamaha MG166cx Mixer
DBX DriveRack PA Processor w/RTA-M Mic

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:30 pm

Hmm, that's a fairly small-scale system. You'll have to tell us a bit more about:

(1) the type of bands/music you will be hoping to work with
(2) the size of venue you expect to work in
(3) how you expect what you have listed to connect to the performers. Your mics?
(4) your budget

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:35 pm

small scale? i thought my 2 br15s and xls 202 was small scale lol

1) acoustic, rock, hardcore
2) smalled to medium sized i guess (up to maybe 300 people?)
3) ive got mics!
4) about $3500 in 4 mains, 4 monitors, 2 subs and amps.

ive already got 2 br15s and the yamaha board which i plan on keeping to use

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:26 am

BR's for hardcore??? For 300 hardcorees? Those are pretty light duty boxes, using stamped-frame woofers. Ditto for the JBL JRX crap. Those cabs don't hold up and don't like to be pumped...period. These cheaper lines from JBL, Yamaha, Peavey, etc., are not designed to be carted around and punished the way cabs tend to be treated in hardore venues.
You really need to look at boxes that have cast-frame drivers, REAL wood (NOT MDF or particleboard). Or at least those molded-plastic cabs from JBL EON or Mackie will out-perform the gear you've listed. A liitle more money spent up front will keep you from spending more in the long run...

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:40 am

I'm very good about how I treat my equipment, getting thrashed around isnt a concern of mine since I am the only one that touches it.

Ive had great success with the 2 BR15s I currently have. With this said, is it really worth spending the extra money on say Yamaha S115v Club Series V, or C115v Club Concert Series just because of them getting thrashed around?

And I'm assuming you are suggesting the Yamaha SW118 over the JBL JRX118....?

Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:24 pm

anyone else?

Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:41 pm

instead of running 4 br15's, i decided to just go with 4 S115v's but now im contemplating getting 2 S215v's instead. thoughts?

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:06 am

Getting the sound "up in the air" can be a very big advantage, that's why S-O-S ("sound-on-a-stick" or "speaker-on-stand") are so popular. Can't do that with a 2x15 box. You can also spread the 4 boxes out to where you may need the sound, depending on the venue. In addition, if you can take each pair of the 115's and if you put them up in the air side-by-side, you can take advantage of their trapezoidal design and create a wider dispersion pattern by coupling the cabs. The bottom line is there will be more versatility in your applications, depending upon the situations you may encounter.

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:39 am

True, thats what I started thinking. Thanks for the advice

Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:39 pm

just ordered a new amp (crown xls 802d) to run a sub i will be getting soon. probably going to go with the yamaha sw118 sub, it says it has a built in crossover, so will that suffice or should i get a different. if so, im on a tight budget and looking towards a dod sr835. what do you guys think?

Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:13 pm

The SW118 does not have a built-in crossover, meaning that there is no output for connecting the mid/highs. You need an external crossover, and at these powers, electronic crossovers driving separate power amps are the norm.

For accurate amplitude and phase response through the crossover region, you should try to get a crossover that uses Linkwitz-Riley filters. These are even-order cascaded Butterworth filters that have 6dB of attenuation at the nominal crossover frequency (as opposed to 3dB for normal filters) and phase responses for the two outputs that align the phase through the crossover region.

Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:37 pm

linkwitz-riley filters, even-order cascaded butterworth filters....

this is like a foreign language to me. all i understood was butterworth, as in pancake syrup and i doubt thats what you are talking about.

i want to understand everything, but is there a quality, budget minded crossover you can suggest? or any input on the dod sr835?

and, the reason i thought the sw118 had a built in crossover is due to it saying it has "redesigned crossovers" in the description....

Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:44 pm

also, just for the record, the new plan is the following:

MAINS
(4) Yamaha S115v Cabs
Crown XLS 802 Power Amp

MONITORS
(4) Yamaha BR12m Monitors
Crown XLS 602 Power Amp

SUBS
(2) Yamaha SW118v Subs
Crown XLS 802 Power Amp

Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:54 am

I would skip the DOD x-over. A very good alternative would be an Ashley.
These have MUCH better headroom, a smoother filter slope, and better protection against possible driver damage. Ashleys are renowned for their filter designs, and you can usually find used ones on e-Bay ata good price. Rane also makes good x-overs.

Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:57 am

stealthy wrote:

linkwitz-riley filters, even-order cascaded butterworth filters....

this is like a foreign language to me. all i understood was butterworth, as in pancake syrup and i doubt thats what you are talking about.

i want to understand everything, but is there a quality, budget minded crossover you can suggest? or any input on the dod sr835?

and, the reason i thought the sw118 had a built in crossover is due to it saying it has "redesigned crossovers" in the description....

I think the description applied to the whole Club V range, of which the SW118V is a member. The full-range cabinets have internal crossovers to feed the internal bass and HF units. It's possible the subwoofer cabinets have low-pass filters, but not crossovers.

As Moonbaby says, the DOD unit will not cut it here. Take his advice on Ashley or Rane. I've got an old C-Audio crossover that works pretty well, but they are long since discontinued.

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