Poweramps and Speakers?

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:02 am

Hello!
I'm pretty new to the forum and am hoping to get some decent advice. I've been an active musician for about 10 years now and have been in the studio and have toured around with a few bands.
The bands I've played in had their own sound systems I've been able set up and even mix, but I never really came to understand all the technical aspects regarding poweramps and speakers. Everything I know is pretty much self taught or has been taught to me during my travels.

I'm looking into getting some really nice sound equipment for myself. I just don't know where to turn for main speakers and power amps. I understand to match them to avoid over-driving and blowing up the speakers, but I'm not sure what would produce the right amount of volume.

I'm looking to set this equipment up in medium/large club-sized venues and outdoor events, and I really want it to blast. For subs, I'll be using two B-52 LX-18 V2 18" 1000W Folded Horn Subwoofers (I used these in one of the bands I played with and they really punch - I love them.)

My question is this: What should the specs on my mains and poweramps be as far as Watts, Ohms, etc. Does anyone have a recommended setup? I'm really hoping for pro-sounding stuff. I know what to do as far as mixers and such, it's just the poweramp and mains that I find myself at a hault.

Please don't worry about budget, I'm concerned more with the quality than the price (although I am open to any price-saving solutions you may have to offer Wink

)

Thank you all so so much! All your help is greatly appreciated.
David

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:13 am

Are these to go into a specific room or for portable use?

If they're for a room can you share some dimensions?

Also, what kind of music?

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:58 am

If you need subs, I believe you'll want a stereo amp configured in bridged mode (or just a beast of a mono amp).

Will you need to configure the mains in stereo?

The important things to note here are resistances and power second. (Well, most important is the total power available - you can't munch more than that or something will drop out.)
Linking 2 speakers will make the resistance drop (2 8Ohm speakers becomes 4Ohms) which makes the amp work harder and therefore overheats more easily meaning you need more power - but it will be louder.
You might also need a crossover or two.

Where are you, I know a place in Scotland that sells amps... there might be a place near Greener or maybe a couple scattered around the States. Maybe you're in Venezuela and that complicates things?

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:34 am

Venezuela wouldn't complicate things as they have plenty of oil.

My recommendations, don't plug more than 2 speakers into any amplifier output. Purchase Crown amplifiers if money is no object? And the most power you can afford as you can never have too much power. You can have however, too little speakers, which won't mind the power. Unless you're stupid? Which I suspect? If you're only objective is to BLAST? Subs? I like QUIZNO's over Subway.

Total food informant
Ms. Remy Ann David

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:20 pm

Thank you all for your quick responses

I am asking what watt/ohms push a decent amount of volume in a speaker and poweramp. If you have a recommended setup, please share =]

RemyRAD, thank you for the kind words.

Codemonkey: I've thought about running the mains in stereo, but seeing as the primary use for this equipment would be live performance, I feel ultimately this issue stands under preference. I would LOVE to run the mains in stereo, however I do not mind running mains in mono. Also, I'm in California, U.S =]

Greener: Ultimately this will be for a fixed room - as of now, I do not know the dimensions of the room, sorry =/ I wish I knew the exact dimensions of the room; all I know is it will probably be a club sized room.

Genre of music: pop, rock, jazz, funk, alternative. Honestly, probably more rock and alternative than anything.

Thanks again!
David

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:40 pm

A club sized room could mean 150 to 1500 people. That's a few cubic feet different from one another. So like I said, you can never have too much power. Do you want a passive system or are you going to tri-amp with active crossovers? That will have a lot to do with how many channels & power of amplification you'll need. For a club sized system of the average storefront nightclub, I'd say you need 1500 W for your subs. 800 W for your low-frequency drivers 400 W for your mid & high-frequency drivers each.

Some amplifiers can have loads lower than 2 ohms while others will blow up and fail with that low a load. Figuring most speakers are 8 ohm, and two in parallel = 4 ohm, most amplifiers do well with 4 ohms. In fact most have their greatest power curve at that impedance. If you want to connect more speakers, I recommend more amplifiers.

And you haven't even asked about those active electronic crossovers. Some are awful and some are pretty hot. It all depends on how much money you got. So permanent install or not, your question is like "how much engine do I need for a car? It will be a permanent car." Right and the Pope is Jewish. A little electronic theory would help answer your question. But I guess you haven't completed high school yet?

Electronics 101
Ms. Remy Ann David

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:51 pm

RemyRAD wrote:

A club sized room could mean 150 to 1500 people. That's a few cubic feet different from one another. So like I said, you can never have too much power. Do you want a passive system or are you going to tri-amp with active crossovers? That will have a lot to do with how many channels & power of amplification you'll need. For a club sized system of the average storefront nightclub, I'd say you need 1500 W for your subs. 800 W for your low-frequency drivers 400 W for your mid & high-frequency drivers each.

Some amplifiers can have loads lower than 2 ohms while others will blow up and fail with that low a load. Figuring most speakers are 8 ohm, and two in parallel = 4 ohm, most amplifiers do well with 4 ohms. In fact most have their greatest power curve at that impedance. If you want to connect more speakers, I recommend more amplifiers.

And you haven't even asked about those active electronic crossovers. Some are awful and some are pretty hot. It all depends on how much money you got. So permanent install or not, your question is like "how much engine do I need for a car? It will be a permanent car." Right and the Pope is Jewish. A little electronic theory would help answer your question. But I guess you haven't completed high school yet?

Electronics 101
Ms. Remy Ann David

real nice, got a potentially nice forum here. would be nice if the "moderator" wasn't an asshole - pardon the french, but it's necessary.

seriously - just asking for help, not to be insulted. there isn't any need to use sarcastic tones and phrases like "A little electronic theory would help answer your question. But I guess you haven't completed high school yet?" and "Unless you're stupid? Which I suspect?"

I don't appreciate the personal attacks.

Thank you to everyone else who was willing to be polite and helpful. As for RemyRAD, I'd rather not seek help from you, so don't bother responding, you'll be ignored. Anyone else, please be my guest to give any advice.

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:16 am

If you have bass bins, you probably should use an active crossover out of the board, and split the lows to a bridged-to-mono power amp. Bass is basically non-directional, so stereo won't matter much, and you really want the kick drum and bass coming from both, anyway.

If the main setup is going to be one stack (bass/mid-hi) each side of a stage, may as well just run them mono also. Stereo in a live band club may work, but a lot of times, all you'll be doing is depriving people to the extreme left or right by the walls the signal from the opposite side speakers. And, the closer to one speaker, the less the opposite will be heard, so you may also deprive those folks of much of your ripping wanker solos!

Because most bands use real drums and guitar amps, there's enough stage sound bouncing around from those to create a bit more "ambience".

A disco is another story. A more elaborate stereo setup with strategically-placed speakers around the dance floor and through the club can be done...but it ain't easy or cheap to do properly.

Pay attention to the speakers' impedance totals however you connect them to match what the amp is capable of. For bass, get good quality with high power. Don't buy the cheapest brand from a catalog. You'll be glad you didn't, later.

Kapt.Krunch

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:35 am

Hey, Dave:
You came onto this site and posted a request for help. You stated that you wanted to buy some "really nice sound equipment" for yourself, but then you boasted that B-52 subs "really punch". Compared to what? I have some "really nice sound equipment"- Radian, JBL FOH speakers, for instance. I have heard the B-52 subs ( I own a speaker repair business and see fried B52's all the time), they do not "punch" when compared to the "good stuff"- they "woof". But that's what you get when you put a cheap driver in a 20+-year-old technology folded horn.
Remy ( who I have butted heads with more than once) gave you some very sage advice to help you make an intelligent, informed decision, devoid of all the hype and BS that are so prelavent in this business. The fact that you are expecting somebody here to hold your hand and tell you what specific products to buy is crap. Get your drooling Neandrathal head outta your butt and READ UP on how this gear operates and how to figure out what you'll need for your purposes. It's not exactly rocket science, you just can't be a lazy clubrat that can't read the Welcome mat on the steps of his double-wide.
Now who's the asshole? LOL!!!!

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:03 am

thank you everyone for your help and advice
i really do appreciate the help.

moonbaby:
i've not asked for anything more in this forum than advice and information you may have to give. that's it. nothing more.

i would have appreciated Remy's advice more if her last few sentences in each post weren't an attempt in calling me an idiot. this is a forum - a place for discussion on topics - not a place to throw punches that are uncalled for. i asked a question; i asked for advice and suggestions. i've been reading up, thank you. but try to think back to when you first started researching something, you asked the advice/help from someone and they helped you. i'm sure that not everyone you sought help from gave you the finger and called you a moron for asking.

i've not asked for anything more in this forum than advice and information you may have to give. that's it. nothing more.

if you find my questions stupid, if you think this is the wrong place to ask a question, or if you just don't want to give advice - that is fine. feel free to not say anything. that is more than acceptable.

my point is this: for only having been here about day or two, i've been insulted several times - mostly by a moderator of the forum. you know, a moderator - the one who is supposed to be helpful, intelligible, guiding, and making sure things stay organized and proper in the forum. i didn't know a moderator was supposed to throw insults to people he or she feels is less intelligent.

i've not asked for anything more in this forum than advice and information you may have to give. that's it. nothing more.

I appreciate ALL the advice and attempts given by users here such as Kapt.Krunch, Codemonkey, and Greener. I did appreciate Remy's advice UNTIL she took a shot at my intelligence, in which this is not a place for.

SO, THANK YOU to all who have been kind enough to share some knowledge with me. I do appreciate it very very much. I am impressed a great deal by you who have attempted to share knowledge and give advice so promptly.

However, I doubt I will ever even discuss anything here again.

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:30 am

I'll give you some advice. Seeing as you'll listen as I haven't called you names yet.
Shut up. Ask questions, get answers, give opinions but don't bitch.

Some nice truth from Moonbaby there. And glad to see Ms. David trying to help.

Awesome thread.

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