how to master you mixes

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:12 pm

Hey guys, i'm just now starting to get into recording and stuff of that nature, im now taking the next step and getting serious and i know it is a stupid thing to ask, however, i know what mastering IS but i dont know how to do it!!!

i've recorded with my band twice at a local studio (Seconds to september) so i know what mastering does and what its used for.

however, i dont exactly know how to go about doing it, yet i know how much of a dramatic change it is.

is it hardware or software or both? how much does it cost to get a good set up? is the "mastering" that comes with your recording software qualify as real mastering or is it just phoned in?

please help,
thanks
tyler

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:08 pm

Some of the guys here have spent upwards of $50,000.

Some of the guys out there have spend less than $1,000.

Unfortunately, you can tell the difference. A properly trained ME (mastering engineer) with skills, space and equipment will make an incredible job. An idiot with cracked software can make a vague job that could probably ruin your song.

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:15 am

This is a mastering console for sale through these forums...

Something tells me there is a reason to spend 73 grand on Mastering gear...
The 39 dollars on the end is just the cut for RO... Razz

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:16 am

This is a perfect example of some of the voodoo black magic that's required to make audience sound good.

Top recording engineer/mixers don't need much Mastering at all. It's already there. Sometimes they'll need a minimal amount of tweaking which may be accomplished by decoding the signal through analog equipment and then reencoding it back to our standard CD digital format.

So you're mastering is only as good as it sounds on everybody else's equipment, not just your own. But you really don't need to have $16,000 per pair of speakers and a $10,000 Sontec equalizer or some kind of hot crap plug-in limiter. Always remember that LESS IS MORE & KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID.

Going fishing with my friends because they know what a good Master Baiter I am.
Ms. Remy Ann David

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:45 am

thanks a lot for the help guys, but its really not answering my question, and thats my fault.

simply.... can someone tell me what i need to master something...

i know recording...

*you need an interface, a computer, software, microphones... etc...

im looking for the same kind of response please, im very much in the dark here.

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:53 am

Some damn good ears, a cd burner and an EQ.

Seriously. ME's are like the shamans of the music industry. They don't talk about their Voodoo, they do it.

Edit: Except Bob Katz who seems to write about it a lot.

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:01 pm

If you want to be a real mastering engineer, you need real dollars. About 100,000 to start with. You've got that, right? Oh, that's just for the building improvements. Then you need another $100,000 for the equipment. Got that? There really aren't any budget Mastering Engineers. The closest thing you can come to that is so cute little kid in his basement with an M-Box 2 & ProTools who thinks they are a mastering engineer. And will do the job for you for $10 per hour or per song, maybe dinner?

Remember a real mastering equalizer alone like the SONTEC only costs about $10,000. You'll need at least two. And don't forget to have every type of analog & digital playback device ever invented. Your speakers & amplifier combination shouldn't cost too much more than your 2 cars in your driveway? It's good to have a firstborn male child just in case you want the best equipment.

I have the good stuff. That's why I'm childless.
Ms. Remy Ann David

Moderator Joined: Sep 12, 2002 Posts: 1884 Location: NYC

the simple version, it's making the project cohesive from beginning to end. You do this with eq, compression, etc... if needed. every project i've ever worked on from the top of the top mixers to the bottom of the bottom requires some pulling and pushing to bring it together. You put everything in order and listen to each song and see where it needs to be in order to work with the song before and after.

You want to listen for level and balance between the songs. Start with that.

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:56 pm

RemyRAD wrote:

Top recording engineer/mixers don't need much Mastering at all. It's already there. Sometimes they'll need a minimal amount of tweaking...

True. A great mix doesn't need "fixing", but instead the mastering engineer's work is still building the playlist, and making the project cohesive as a whole.

RemyRAD wrote:

But you really don't need to have $16,000 per pair of speakers and a $10,000 Sontec equalizer or some kind of hot crap plug-in limiter. Always remember that LESS IS MORE & KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID.

I agree again, but to a point. I'm a minimalist when it comes to gear, but IMO there is a prerequisite.

RemyRAD wrote:

There really aren't any budget Mastering Engineers.

That would depend on what you consider "budget". Massive Mastering has fantastic rates, great gear, a nice room, and he is good at what he does. I consider him to be a steal.

I'm not attacking ya, Remy. Just making conversation.

I think of mastering similar to mixing. When you are mixing a song you are taking individual instruments and figuring out what need to be done to make them fit together as one solid sound.

When you are mastering you are taking individual songs and need to figure how to strike a balance to make one solid album. When you listen to an album all the way through each song doesn't need to sound the same, but they should sound related to each other.

To answer the poster's question. You need the following:

A good room, good speakers, a computer, a pre-mastering program(Wavelab, Soundblade, Wave Editor, etc), a CD burner, at least a good D/A for monitoring if you aren't running outboard gear, some decent plugins (compressor, limiter, EQ).

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:51 pm

"To answer the poster's question. You need the following: "

Priceless!

I think I'll pay attention to what Micheal said, if no one minds.

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:04 am

I love these forums, you get dudes coming on being all down on them selves asking questions like what can I do with what I have got in the way of mastering a track. Then you get the big boys saying your gear is xxxp therefore you should just give up. I have been a musician for 25 years. I have seen people perform fantastic on cheap gear I've seen them perform the same and sometimes worse on great gear. I have to be honest seen people perform less than great on really crap gear however usually because thet are not used to it. Now when it comes to amateurs...thats different, good gear some how gives these guys that little boost and really acts as a kind of safety blanket for the rich but un-talanted. However for the guys out there that have to earn a living and are still talented musicians yes you can master your own stuff. I have listened to tracks recorded, mixed mastered, copied and then distributed to shops for sale all for around the $4000 mark. That is for the whole set up, mics, recording, mixing, mastering, everything, so all this talk about 80,000 mastering consoles, who on this site records for Britney? Has anyone recorded AC DC, well yeah, when you have made the big time are rich and can afford all this stuff great, but what makes a great engineer is one with good ears and you cant buy them for $80,000,000 you have them for free then work the little gadgets along with your fingers thats what you need for mastering, and dont let any jumped up rich kids with money to burn tell you any different

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:50 pm

RemyRad is correct. Really well done recordings don't need much mastering. Unfortunately today most recordings are not done in multimillion dollar studios by someone with 25+ years of experience but are instead done in someone's basement or bedroom by someone with minimal experience. They are not monitored on good speakers and the room they are mixed in leaves much to the imagination. Mastering today is more important than ever but many people decide to do it themselves either to keep control of the project or because they don't have the money to go to places like Gateway and pay $400 per hour or because they truly want to learn how to do it.

To the original poster. The first thing I would do is buy Bob Katz's book on mastering http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Audio-Second-art-science/dp/0240808371/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1227440874&sr=8-1 and read it cover to cover. Second I would look though these pages (you can do a search) and see how many other people have asked the same exact questions you are asking. Then sit down with a big tablet and put a line down the middle. Mark one column PRO and one column CON. Then start putting down what YOU think would be the reason you should or should not start to do your own mastering. Be honest with your answers. When you have finished that exercise you will have a better feeling for what you want to do.

If you want to start doing your own mastering then you should come back to this forum and do some research on how to go about it. If you want to get your stuff professionally mastered then there are lots of people on this forum than provide top quality mastering services at very reasonable prices and you should contact them via private messages or email and find out about their rates and the turnaround time.

Best of luck!

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:57 pm

there you go bisson, madrum is just what i think as well, thomas also is right too, if peter gabriel is going to your home to master something, you better get the million dls gear, eventhough, there you got john frusciante who doesn't get down on a amazing budget for mastering his solo albums and still put out some records that people likes and buy...so keep going and rocking,

And remyrad is most of the time right so, read / listen to them always...

regards,
gnzlo.

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:44 am

I haven't read a wrong answer yet!

But the post that answers the op question directly "how to master you mixes " that is a more informed answer and speaks directly to what can you do with existing work, even if it is a lesson in futility, was given by Michael Fossenkemper.

Code and Greener are right, even though they didn't give answers. Who is right? You CAN't HANDLE who is RIGHT!!!!

Smile

p.s. I didn't go to the church building this morning, so this is my amen.

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:22 am

And Space is right, even though he didn't answer the question.

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