Diffusors (Manufacturer Comparisons)

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 8:56 pm

I am finishing up a studio in my basement and I have started looking into diffusors for the back wall. I have absorption covered using Owens Corning 703's in clouds and wall panels, and I'll have it in the corners for bass traps. All of that is pretty straight forward, but in the realm of diffusion there are so many options (and costs). Most of these below have an open back where you can insert 703 for low end absorption (below 500 hz) but that's not the case with doing the homebuilt version at the bottom. Also, the Space Coupler methodology seems interesting - thoughts?
If any of you have reasearched or know more about which method of diffusion works well please let me know.
Here are some manufacturers.

GIK (http://www.gikacoustics.com/gik_d1_diffusor.html):

Real Traps (http://www.realtraps.com/diffusor.htm):

Auralex Metro Fusor (http://www.auralex.com/sound_diffusor_metrofusor/sound_diffusor_metrofusor.asp):

Auralex T Fusor (http://www.auralex.com/sound_diffusor_tfusor/sound_diffusor_tfusor.asp) :

Auralex Space Coupler (http://www.auralex.com/partscience/spacecoupler.asp):

RPG Skyline Diffusor (http://www.rpginc.com/products/skyline/index.htm):

Here you can see it on the back of a listening wall:

RPG Qrd Diffusor (http://www.rpginc.com/products/diffractal/index.htm):

Here is a home-built. I am thinking about doing this myself, on the entire back wall.

What makes any one of these better than the others? Which would you stay away from?
Thanks for any help.

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 2:10 pm

Glide,

How big is your room? In a basement studio, I'm assuming it's fairly small. You might want to read this thread...

http://www.recording.org/ftopict-36804-diffusors.html

particularly the posts by Rod Gervis.

I was looking into constructing a large skyline for my bedroom studio, until I read this, and other posts on the same subject.

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:12 pm

Thank you Bill - Nice nuggets in that thread. My back wall is about 23 ft behind me.

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 6:22 pm

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:28 pm

Glide wrote:

If any of you have reasearched or know more about which method of diffusion works well please let me know. Here are some manufacturers.

I'm biased so I'll offer no opinion. I'll just point out that deep diffusors are better than shallow types because they are effective to lower frequencies. Also, known designs based on math are probably better than random or unknown designs.

--Ethan

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 5:23 pm

Ethan, I know, and you should be biased, but thank you for your comments. They are very helpful.

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 1:53 pm

Let's see if a productive public conversation on this can be started in a different way since that first post didn't work. I am seriously in the market for diffusors. I'll just go through and communicate my concerns or thoughts on each one shown above.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying I am correct in my thoughts, and these comments are in no way attacks on any manufacturers. I'm just giving the manufacturers and other readers the thought processes from an actual customer looking to purchase diffusors right now. Hopefully the manufacturers can use this information (and other shoppers also) to improve their marketing efforts.

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The GIK D1 Diffusor: This one doesn't seem to be a proven design to me. There are claims on the website that it does things better that many other 7 root diffusors won't do. By the way, what is a 7 root diffusor? and why is it better? Would a 9 root diffusor be even better!? The website doesn't explain 7 root clearly, which makes me default to the belief that it is just marketing jargon.

From the website: ..."does not exhibit lobing (uneven scattering) problems at 3500Hz so typical with many other 7 root diffusers of comparable size...

As a consumer my first thought is that this is a serious claim that should be proven on the website with hard data. You don't just shoot down "many other" diffusors with a few words like this without proving it. And I mean more proof than a scattering coefficient chart at the bottom of the page with only GIK data on it. I want to see it compared to other diffusors. Also, specifically how is this one a step up from a standard QRD design as stated on the site?? Also, these are 2 ft x 2ft so I would need 4 of them to equal 1 Real Trap so this is basically the same price as a Real Trap diffusor.

Also, as stated above, this is not an attack on Glen and Bryan, or GIK. I really want to know about this product, and I am sharing with them honest consumer thoughts during the purchase due diligence.

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The Real Traps Diffusor: My first thought on this one is that it is wayyyy overpriced. I mean, two of these on my back wall would be $1,000. Maybe $1,000 worth of another diffusor could treat my whole room? Also, why does the design look so much different than the other ones like the skyline and the GIK? Is it "better" or just "different"? It looks like the slats are all the same which leads me to believe it isn't scattering or diffusing a thing. It seems more like an absorptive panel than a diffusor. It looks just like the RPG QRD design which they have patented. Is this company sort of doing a re-make of a patented design? That could really affect my purchase decision.

Again, to be clear, this is not an attack on Ethan - and also I am not claiming I am right in my thoughts - I'm just giving the readers and manufacturers the thought processes of a person that is seriously in the market for these.

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Auralex Metro Fuser: This one seems very thin to me, like I can't put a 703 absorptive panel behind it. But I do like that it seems big like the Real Traps Diffusor. The only other drawback is that I am not real stoked about the auralex brand - Their brand just seems too much like foam to me.

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Auralex T fusor: I don't know, this one just seems too much like Arnold and the terminator to me. It looks like I may be able to get absorption behind it, but I am just not sure of its diffusion capabilities.

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Auralex Space Coupler: I just don't know what to think about this one although the "story" or "sales pitch" for it is an interesting read.

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RPG Skyline: This is the way I am leaning, but still not sure dollar for dollar and space-wise how much this will cover.

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RPG QRD: This sort of looks like the RealTraps Diffusor which has me thinking that if two guys are doing the same thing there may be something to it. So my first thought is that if I decide on this route is the RPG less expensive than the Real Traps? RPG also is the one with the patent on this design.

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Skyline Home-Built: May be a cheap option if I build it myself, and I can set it up where I can get absorption behind it.

Ok, there's my thought process. Manufacturers and readers feel free to comment with your thought process if you are buying these also, and builders please correct me in my thoughts. I hope it was helpful to let you inside the mind of someone that is shopping. It may help you in the marketing of your product. This isn't an attack on anyone or anything, just an honest discussion about the benefits in each of these products. Maybe they all work equally well and it just comes down to an aesthetics or price issue, but I want to learn about the variations across each.

Thx.

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:47 am

Still staying away from opinion and addressing facts only.

Quote:

The Real Traps Diffusor: My first thought on this one is that it is wayyyy overpriced. I mean, two of these on my back wall would be $1,000. Maybe $1,000 worth of another diffusor could treat my whole room? Also, why does the design look so much different than the other ones like the skyline and the GIK? Is it "better" or just "different"? It looks like the slats are all the same which leads me to believe it isn't scattering or diffusing a thing. It seems more like an absorptive panel than a diffusor. It looks just like the RPG QRD design which they have patented. Is this company sort of doing a re-make of a patented design? That could really affect my purchase decision.

The RealTraps diffusor is a classic and proven QRD design. It is similar to RPG's except ours is also a bass trap. Other diffusors either pass or reflect frequencies too low to diffuse. Ours absorbs, which is a huge feature when used on the rear wall behind the mix position. It also costs about half what RPG's does for their standard wood model. As I understand it, RPG's patent is not for the basic shape, which is not patentable, but only for the particular combination of materials they use. If you think our diffusor is expensive, I invite you to watch the video showing how our products are made, fourth in the list here:

http://www.realtraps.com/videos.htm

There are a lot of pieces, all different, and it takes two people about two hours to build each diffusor by hand.

Also, in fairness to GIK, you need only two (not four) of their 2x2 units to have the same physical size (8 square feet) as one of our 2x4 units.

--Ethan

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:25 pm

Great information - Thanks Ethan. Checking out the link now.

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